|
|
UK Larp, Is it dead or dying ?? |
Post Reply 
|
Page 123> |
| Author |
 Share Topic Printable Version Google Delicious Digg StumbleUpon Windows Live Yahoo Bookmarks reddit Facebook MySpace Newsvine Furl Topic Search  Topic Options
|
Alex Agricola 
Admin Group 
Joined: 08 Jan 2010 Location: West Sussex Posts: 151 |
 Post Options
 Quote Reply
 Topic: UK Larp, Is it dead or dying ??Posted: 23 Feb 2010 at 11:19 |
|
So I guess looking out at the UK weather and thinking about all the negatives Ive been hearing on the larpvine, I'm starting to get worried and ask a few fateful questions.....
Is Larp dead ?? or dying ?? will the current economic situation, spell the end ??
Will player apathy help its decline, or do we think the players will fight for their hobby ??
Will this thread even get answered or has facebook & twitter hammered even more nails in the coffin called communication taking up peoples time with pointless apps ???
Anyone fancy sharing an opinion ??
|
|
 |
|
|
Luke Manterfield
Helpful Member 
Joined: 17 Jan 2010 Location: Brighton UK Posts: 81 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 23 Feb 2010 at 13:28 |
|
Id say its certainly not dying, though there will be a slight drop in the number of events, or number of people at events for the next year or so. Once the economy picks up properly again (which, if the RPI index is any sort of indicator, it is, albeit slowly) im sure it will reach the levels. Apathy is always a problem, and in the economic situation at present it does have an even more noticeable impact. However id also say people are becoming more selective as a result of this "depression" if people want to call it that. Its forcing people to choose which events they consider to be high on the priority list, and those events they put a lot of time and effort into, whereas they may not attend those that they attend but enjoy less, or go just because lots of their mates do.
I agree that a lot of people spend far too much time on apps though... as someone who played one app for far too long im glad i got rid of it a month or so ago.
There are still a number of great systems out there. I think however that unless people have something invested in a club then they will be less inclined to attend. I am currently involved in the early discussion stages of setting up a Southcoast LRP Club (watch this sub forum) in order to encompass a number of systems and clubs, with a large base of kit/props and all that malarky to draw on for free by all members for the systems they run, as well as networking players and crew to get a good number of people attending everyones events.
When more has been finalised regarding this, I shall put a separate thread up here with more info. As i say its early stages, but if youre reading this and it sounds like something that you'd be interested in then please contact me.
|
|
|
|
|
Gideon Lawrence
Helpful Member
Joined: 14 Jan 2010 Posts: 50 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 24 Feb 2010 at 07:54 |
|
Is Larp dead ?? or dying ?? will the current economic situation, spell the end ??
Not even a little bit, the dreaded fest systems (CP/Mealstrom/Profound Decisions) are all pumping more money into there ventures. If anything I would fear for the death of the little system. Why go to a local larp when you can save up and go to a fest with 2000 people?
However saying that, there is some fantastic new talent out there, after five or years of running Wyvernstales, my own group has just seen a large influx of new players. So I would have to look at impirecle evidence and say no.
Will player apathy help its decline, or do we think the players will fight for their hobby ??
We all fear player appathy, my only issue is the rutt that games seem to have gotten into. Groups dont spread out much anymore and trying to get new players in seems confined to students. Which is foolish. Look at the weather. ;) There not getting up in the morning!
Will this thread even get answered or has facebook & twitter hammered even more nails in the coffin called communication taking up peoples time with pointless apps ???
It seems people have answered, for which I am very glad!
|
|
|
|
|
Alex Agricola
Admin Group
Joined: 08 Jan 2010 Location: West Sussex Posts: 151 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 25 Feb 2010 at 13:21 |
|
Hey Gideon, don't kid yourself that the big boys invest a jot in their events.... the word pumping isn't in their vocab.. The kit is old, the tents etc... and feedback from lots of players is that all the big systems are far from good at delivering good IC areas..
Why go to a local fest ??... because its not just an expensive weekend pissup.... which is what many of the big boys delivery.
Apathy has always been a Larp curse, but then why should people just do things for love ???
Ive never figured out why small clubs dint get together and support each other ?? share player bases, kit... monsters .... AND consider new ways of marketing events.. and bringing in new blood.
Yes, we are lucky in so much as our background gives us a massive player base of people to inform, but only 3 clubs in the UK have ever asked us to announce stuff (through lrpstore)despite it being free marketing
Its almost like people want new players, but associate more players with more work and then loose interest in making a success of things.
A few say Mr Pennington of PD got it right, but then I'd argue he looses as many as he gains every year.... and his arrogance astounds me (as was his rudeness, when we offered him a FREE... yes FREE feature) he simply couldnt be arsed to comment or tell people about his system and wanted me to put something together he could simply sign !!
One day, someone will give the big systems a run for their money and they will all end up shutting down... and sadder still its likely to be someone from abroad..
2 answers... apathy strikes again..
|
|
|
|
|
Daniel Hartley
Member 
Joined: 08 Mar 2010 Location: Huddersfield Posts: 2 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 08 Mar 2010 at 23:27 |
|
I have to agree with certain parts of what every one here is saying. No LARP in the Uk is certainly not dying, not at all. It does seem to have dipped a little bit and will remain this way until the economy picks up but that goes for any hobby really.
I used to LARP in a few small systems and the LT but now i just go to the LT. Yes it has its floors but doesnt all systems but they are worked out. But from what i saw last year and so far this year people are still LARPing as eagerly as ever.
|
|
|
|
|
Alex Agricola
Admin Group
Joined: 08 Jan 2010 Location: West Sussex Posts: 151 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 09 Mar 2010 at 13:12 |
|
Ok, so then I'd ask, why do so few people involved in larp get vocal ?? even the forums (most forums) seem to be filled with players that have lost enthusiasm... you see a forum of 3000... and if you look carefully ... only 20 are vocal..
Dont get me wrong... Ive been larping for 23 years... and I still love it.. (and Ive played a few systems) but im still amazed at the lack of voice this hobby has...
We have thousands of larpers as members of alltern8...... but we struggle to find anyone who wants to contribute ??? even get paid a little to do so ???
We wont give up though.
|
|
|
|
|
Mike Nudd
Helpful Member
Joined: 01 Feb 2010 Posts: 44 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 09 Mar 2010 at 18:20 |
|
My view is that LRPing in the UK is polarised largely into two groups - fantasy 'boffers' and White Wolf horror. Both camps have a certain stigma attached and are run by a core clique of dedicated people that may have some difficultiy relating to outsiders.
From the outside looking in though neither experience is particularly appealing to the casual gamer or a newcomer to the hobby, and I think that's a good chunk of the problem. The 'third way' of course is the freeform experience using contemporary or historical settings but I never see this approach getting much attention from the gaming press or from the gaming community at large. |
|
|
|
|
Bill T
Helpful Member
Joined: 11 Jan 2010 Posts: 51 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 09 Mar 2010 at 20:45 |
I may be an American, but I think I can give a little insight into this. There are two reasons why there aren't a lot of resources or people willing to contribute to the site. 1) Stigma. So many people are ashamed that they LARP (at least here in the US). People are afraid to stand out in social structures or be portrayed publicly as a LARPer. This is not as big a reason as number 2. 2) LARP is a niche hobby, and so there is no reference post on who is educated on the topic. There are tons of people who have been playing for a long time, but what does it take to be considered a credible source? Do you have to take a test? Do you have to have participated in X different games? Run Plot? From my perspective, if you have so much as 2-3 years experience, you can probably write on some subject of LARP. The more, the merrier. I have been LARPing for over 10 years now, and even though most of those were isolated into one game, a lot of the truths about LARPing carry over to other games. If you're out there, and you think you know a thing or two about LARPing, you probably have what it takes to be a subject matter expert, or at least a credible source. Get out there and write!
|
|
|
|
|
Alex Agricola
Admin Group
Joined: 08 Jan 2010 Location: West Sussex Posts: 151 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 09 Mar 2010 at 21:10 |
|
Ive always been quite vocal about my feeling on larp, but then LRPstore.com broke the mold and proved to quite a few mud slingers, you can make a decent living out of the hobby.... which in turn resulted in even more mud slinging..
It pains me I know for a fact there are over tens of thousands of alltern8 members from all over the world into larp and yet why be shy posting on here ??? this forum and community is NOT made up of people that dont have a clue about the hobby...
Ive said it before and at the risk of being boring.. we see lots of clubs dissapear every year.. Ive helped a few and ive offered help to others (all no strings) and yet you still hear of cancelled events ??
Which leaves me asking what the hell is worng with people ? there are supposed to be people to love the hobby clammoring for help.. you offer people everything they want and still.... it still seems to not push them off their arses to take action.
Numbers are dwindling, consumers are spending less, clubs are splitting off into tiny factions no one can ever find ?? and it matters not how big a forum you have.. (over the years I gave people forums details for places with 3000+ members and STILL they had never heard of them)
If clubs dont find each other and work a bit more together DOOOOOOMMMMM is in the wind
 |
|
|
|
|
Luke Manterfield
Helpful Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2010 Location: Brighton UK Posts: 81 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 09 Mar 2010 at 21:45 |
|
Aye id agree with Alex - no reason to not feel like they cant speak out on here. Unfortunately in the past, particularly in the UK on a site which to my knowledge still runs but only has the same people posting over and over, anyone who was vocal and said something on said forum got about 7 responses shooting them down, or causing a big argument, meaning no one wants to say anything anymore. And to a point i agree - i stopped using any forums for around a year and a half because i got fed up of making an inoculous comment or a comment about something i happened to know a lot about, only to have a bunch of people either lash out and have a go at me for saying something, or, (and this annoyed me more) have people tell me i was wrong on something when i knew for a fact i was spot on with my information. Or misconstrue my point and turn it into something else was always a third possibility.
I like posting here because I know its monitered and if something turned into a slagging match it would be removed and people involved in initiating it warned - top approach, well done on that front.
Now its not cos im afraid of people making comments on my own, im happy to argue my corner quite happily in an amicable fashion. But when people are rude it really bugs me and i will simply cease to respond. Partly cos theyre no longer worth my time - manners cost nothing after all. And partly as i dont want to be seen as an antagoniser.
Other people just get to the point where theyre afraid to post anything, or despair over posting anything thats not going to be ripped apart, misconstrued or taken out of context entirely.
Seems like im having a rant, but im not - its all hopefully led to the point i made about people being unwilling to actually make comments and chat to one another. I only hope people read this and feel they can post in this environment, and get some more communication between clubs and systems!
|
|
|
|
|
sven
Member
Joined: 08 Mar 2010 Posts: 23 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 09 Mar 2010 at 21:56 |
|
You have to see LARP in Croatia. It's great if we get about 20ish players together at a local event. We could muster up about 30 maybe for an event that lasts about 3 days.
It's not that bad really since you get to know people better. However I would like to see a 100 or so on one spot with some nice armors and weapons... A man can dream right? We are now attempting to recruit more people and it seems to be working in a strange way. I even got my girlfriend to concider it. ^^ I guess giving out handouts or posting on certain key points for the geek crowd is what got us more people. Some that came weren't even geeks, they just wanted to try it because in truth they thought it seemed fun. So I'm just hoping that we get more regular players. |
|
|
|
|
Mike Nudd
Helpful Member
Joined: 01 Feb 2010 Posts: 44 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 09 Mar 2010 at 23:06 |
This is a slightly different argument. Most established groups consider themselves to be existing communities that have their own web sites, forums and mailing lists. Getting them to spread outside of their bubbles is a lot harder than you might think. Take the WOD LRP in the UK for example. There are only a few hundred active members in the whole country. They constant whine about the need to get new players on board but none of them are prepared to think outside of the box. They don't post anywhere outside of their own mailings lists. They run their own conventions but they don't have a presence at other gaming-orientated events. They're not prepared to tinker with or simplify their rules or their society structure to appeal to the wider market. It's this kind of ethos that's stifling the hobby. That, coupled with the fact that other kinds of gaming activities - e.g. MMOs, console games - are much easier to get into... |
|
|
|
|
Alex Agricola
Admin Group
Joined: 08 Jan 2010 Location: West Sussex Posts: 151 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 09 Mar 2010 at 23:18 |
|
Ah yes I know Mike, they have their own communities and yet still struggle... and claim to be seeking new blood while occasionally having to postpone events that dont fill the numbers.
And yes I cant agree more with the final comment...
Shame..
Sven... find us a good site and I'm pretty sure we could get more players over to you
 Even I now look to the Germans with pure envy at the quality of their events.... If only one day they too learn to market better, but we are all the same I guess.. no one thinks out side the box, whether marketing is offered free (as we have offered) or paid (yes we tried this as well !!)
I think the best you can do is work to create a community that is not just offiliated to one club and seeks to bring the hobby together (OMG... I can feel the love)
Either that or maybe we should organise the biggest party even seen and just invite all the larpers ??? maybe the promise of huge amounts of beer, music, and bashing things will make them see the light ????
|
|
|
|
|
Mike Nudd
Helpful Member
Joined: 01 Feb 2010 Posts: 44 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 Mar 2010 at 11:09 |
|
Well it's certainly true that the LRP organisations here - e.g. Lorien Trust, Maelstrom, Camarilla/IoD - don't really talk to each other. Rather than each of them organising their own seperate national events, maybe they should try and organise a co-operative multi-game national event instead?
Another thing is to wait to see what happens with GenCon UK in 2011. If things go to plan then the organisers will be pushing for a much larger LRP presence in previous years - if all and sundry send demo crews and supporting players then it might get somewhere close to the 'party' you're envisaging... ;) |
|
|
|
|
Alex Agricola
Admin Group
Joined: 08 Jan 2010 Location: West Sussex Posts: 151 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 Mar 2010 at 11:36 |
The big systems "could" help... which is why its suprises me when they dont lift a finger ???
Maybe alltern8 could do something GenCon style ?? who knows... we certainly have the contacts.
If only I were convinced anyone would turn up
 |
|
|
|
|
Gideon Lawrence
Helpful Member
Joined: 14 Jan 2010 Posts: 50 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 09:08 |
|
Ah, multiple event fests... Who else remembers lepracon??
That was awesome. I met so many fantastic people and got involved in so many small events.
I think the problem that larpers have is to a certain extent: egotism. If you are a big enough character to put together your own system, and market it to your mates, and make a go of it etc.
Then you are pretty set in your ways.
There is a HUGE market out there of murder mystery, people who go to medieval banquets, air softers etc. These are all considered exceptable hobbies.
The secret is marketing outside the usual circles, and rellying on word of mouth to get more in.
The question is not one of getting a bigger piece of the pie, its making the pie bigger!
No larpers can really be considered lazy, they go to events, support there systems, buy there kit or make it etc. However, how much time does a person have?
You either get them to drop there current game, in which case you are simply moving resources, or you get more people in. I know which one I would rather.
|
|
|
|
|
Max Bracey
Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2010 Location: London UK Posts: 2 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 24 Mar 2010 at 02:03 |
|
This is a rather interesting question, and something which spells volumes for the social minds of the UK and its ignorance to many things outside of the Box.
With regards LARP, it started here in the UK, yet it flourishes far further in countries like Denmark where they have there own LARP TV series, and Germany.
That said though, by any means, i can honestly say with things like World of Warcraft, movies like Role Models, and more companies selling larp products out there than ever before, that LARP is definatly not dead in the UK, it just appears to ebb and flow in different directions.
Although that said, i do believe we could do with more social tollerance in this country of more accentric things, and actually engage in more things than common yobbishness like football and that like, but then again, i am ranting now :)
Oh, and also Alex, as someone who has bought from you quite a bit in the past, and started up his own Company selling LARP, Pagan, Reenactment etc stuff, i'm more than happy to support you and Altern 8 any way possible, i'm glad you've built an infrastructure which equates to so many things fused into one location with quite the swish image.
That said though, I have been trying to Push LARP for years, myself as I suppose in some way, quite a successfull Movie Actor, am in the process of trying to create an Online web series much like The Guild (If you have seen it?) but based around LARP, doing a more satyrical joke at it, but also encouraging its presence in and around the world. Unfortunately, its only in its small stages yet, and it itself ebbs and flows, and confidence with it is mixed.
I'm sure we'll manage, somehow :)
Edited by Max Bracey - 24 Mar 2010 at 02:12 |
|
|
|
|
Alltern8 .com
Admin Group
Joined: 08 Jan 2010 Posts: 58 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 24 Mar 2010 at 08:24 |
Hi Max,
Did you see our article on the Damsels & Dragons, a US LARP series that certainly brings back memories of a few LARP encounters we've been on
Rgds, Andy Edited by Alltern8 .com - 24 Mar 2010 at 08:25 |
|
|
|
|
Alex Agricola
Admin Group
Joined: 08 Jan 2010 Location: West Sussex Posts: 151 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 24 Mar 2010 at 12:14 |
|
As you say, Max.. UK larp is up and down.. I guess what I'm asking is why the Danes and Germans seem to be growing to such proportions ?? could it be different cultural hobby differences ?? I wonder... as a player I am still looking for that elusive system that works perfectly for my tastes ?? I guess Its wishfull thinking to enjoy a system with enough bits to satify everyone.
Ive already spent years trying to support and encourage people to venture further into the hobby both on the player and business front and people have seen lrpstore grow... along the way (10 years now) we've learnt tons of lessons and spoken to thousands of customers..
One thing I feel is that these days players want more for their hard earned pennies... and selling cheap is not the answer !! Now all players have to realise and get used to is that quality costs more, be it a more durable weapon or an event with more set dressing.
|
|
|
|
|
Maximas Von Bracey
Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2010 Posts: 5 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 24 Mar 2010 at 13:43 |
|
Oh wow, i'm rather shocked at that, thats quite cool (in regards the link).
Yeah absolutely Alex, i think its cultural differences in that there media and so fourth has different goals. Also, Denmark has tapped the LARP market quite heavily and is quite heavy on cultural influences and cultural prominence (as most scandinavian countries are) with the medieval age, the mythology and vikings.
As an example they have utterly revived and declared by law, sacred and protected by its governments, the ancient pagan traditions of Asatru, which is now funded by its governments and is considered a true religion.
Wow, has larp store been open 10 years now? I remember ordering way back when, but that was around in 2005 / 2006, fantastic! Congratulations Alex :)
Fortunately Alex, i think with good people like yourself, Gideon, and myself etc, larp here wont die out, because as old players hang there hats and move on, new players see movies like Role Models, or play World of warcraft and think "Man i want to do that for real". There just has to be a way of tapping into the market more, but this definatly comes down to a cultural mind set of people in the UK being Very Narrow in some area's. Or, rather those that influence us like the Media.
Its us though that carry the torch, and every LARP'er out there, we just need to break the mould somehow, or find a way which (Like the Guild, Or movies like role models etc) Inspires more people to do it and come enjoy in the escapism.
I'm sure we'll get there... Somehow!
Essentially.. Its up to us, to carry the banner, and think of something innovative (like you have done Alex) pull our resources together, and come up with a way of breaking UK's Media Black out on LARP, even though we've been doing it the longest and pretty much discovered it first.
Edited by Maximas Von Bracey - 24 Mar 2010 at 13:47 |
|
|
|
|
Post Reply
|
Page 123> |
| Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
