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UK Larp, Is it dead or dying ?? |
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Kevin Tjia 
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Joined: 29 Apr 2010 Posts: 6 |
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 Posted: 05 Jul 2010 at 21:12 |
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I've just read a lot of posts so I hope I hit on everything that I wanted to comment on...
1. In my opinion there definitely IS a LARP industry. We have 60K+ LARP participants in North America alone, never mind the rest of the world. How many people does it take to make it an industry? 2. Running a game when you are the only resource or nearly the only resource is definitely exhausting. It's clear that many of the posts on this threat believe that this causes anti-social behaviours simply due to exhaustion, and I agree. Keeping an open mind to properly make dealing with others a positive experience and simply dealing with others all takes energy that most LARP facilitators don't seem to have. 3. I believe that most LARPs suffer from a lack of proper management. Of course this is hard to battle because proper management means sharing the load, and sharing the load is hard when everyone is too apathetic to pitch in. 4. We don't trust each other. I'm not saying that we think everyone else is going to rip us off, or steal our ideas and make a better game. I'm talking about a deeper kind of trust. We lack this deeper kind of trust when we do not share the same vision of what the game should be. This is precisely what causes suggestions to be ignored or players to question their larp facilitator; either they do not share the same vision or they do not understand the vision. 5. It is vastly unfortunate but because most LARP participants do not seem to view LARP as an industry they also fail to set objectives and expectations that provide positive interaction with their game. An example of this is value; I have found that a majority of LARP participants simply find everything about LARP "too expensive." Often LARP facilitators feel guilty for charging a fair price for their time and their effort. Participants don't want to pay a fair price for the game they are playing. The entire system starts in a position of inevitable decline because no one can carry the burden of an entire game indefinitely without feeling value coming from that endeavor. (I'm not saying that it has to be money, but whatever they are getting has to have value to them.) 6. LARP is definitely taking a hit due to the recession/depression but there are business models that can be very successful in recessions and depressions. The LARP facilitator may have to make changes if they want their LARP to continue. I have personally changed my LARP business format and received an increase in sales AND participants due to my 'recession' model. 7. I'm not trying to insult anyone here but I honestly feel that most LARP facilitators and participants do not understand the beast that their LARP truly is - both from an effort/reward points of view and from a marketing points of view. 8. For those of you who are looking to grow you game I strongly urge you to look at social marketing. Your LARP is nothing more than an awesome social atmosphere with some interesting rules associated with it. New participants are only achieved by people talking (social proof), and getting exposure (which isn't easy, as we have noted). So, go with what works - social proof. I would be happy to discuss any of my thoughts in further details with anyone interested, if they need or want some help with their LARP. Cheers, Kevin |
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Bill T
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Joined: 11 Jan 2010 Posts: 51 |
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Posted: 06 Jul 2010 at 14:46 |
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Agreed, but we also have our fair share of people who don't think their game is a LARP, due to stigma. But I think you hit the nail on the head about that in point 4.
OMG yes. I have seen ups and downs with LARPs associated with specific resources burning out. I think another big thing about that is that those resources don't pass on enough tribal knowledge to the next one, which keeps it from constantly growing and getting better. This is why I started the "LARP Plot Tips" column.
Dead on, nothing t add.
Correct. Many facilitators treat the game like a club, not an industry, and for that reason they ignore a lot of customer suggestions. Any other business would tell you that's deadly.
A lot of players don't see it as an industry because a lot of facilitators treat it like a club. We definitely need a serious view-shift for everyone to accept this. We'll lose some players, but I think it will help the game improve as a whole.
Strangely enough, we have not seen a significant hit in this area due to the recession. I think this has to do with the demographic we hit as well as the low-cost, club-like feel of the game ($40 for a weekend is not much, when you consider that dinner and a movie costs more).
A lot of facilitating is done behind closed doors, so very few get to actually know what's going on and the kinds of effort people put in. There needs to be some transparency here, especially if we're hoping for the paradigm shift to industry, which comes with increased prices.
Hells yes. Edited by Bill T - 06 Jul 2010 at 14:47 |
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LARP Plot Tips - Fridays |
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Daniel Crafter
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Joined: 26 Jul 2010 Location: Essex Posts: 4 |
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Posted: 05 Aug 2010 at 00:59 |
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That, I feel, is due to vast swathes of underlying issues - I've found, especially here in the UK, a lack of people joining LARP because of the geekyiness. People tend to see geekness as when something is either 'geeky' or 'not geeky' - when it's really more of a scale. Some LARPs plummet to levels they really shouldn't because they don't take themselves seriously enough - or, indeed, too seriously. It's hard not to appreciate the stigma when you see what soem do within LARP systems...http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/group.php?gid=127515707283718&ref=mf.... My friend commented that he thinks people see the LARP, but don't see the 'RP' and you can see why.
And yet many seem unwilling to help other LARPs. We have to realise that fundamentally, LARPs are in competition - they won't share knowledge and expecting them to communicate as to when events can be run is just sheer naivety. Like running any company you have to push through, and hopefully, get some good people on board. But people should also realise that whoever runs the LARP, even as a figurehead is responsible for the shape of the LARP - even the attitude of it's refs and outlook on players. You can't just give up because it's exhausting - how lame!
Too true - but then no one seems to want to tackle the issue. I see new LARPs coming out or upcoming... (such as Odyssey) and yet they're run, managed, organised and plot-written in excatly the same was as they ever have been. I'm now really wary of systems that claim to have 'player-lead' plot, where they ask the groups of players for their group's back-story... it basically says 'you do it because we can't be asked'. It's not just apathy of refs and organisers... but of the LARP itself.
Look at the Element Larp website and you'll see how right you are on this one. The forums are closed, you need to know another member to join, there's no rule-book or rules to download... no wonder it started and ended quickly! I feel it's not just that though - I feel the organisers of LARPs like LT, CP and others seriously feel their players do not know what they want and they don't trust their players - I haven't' seen a new member to CP with a special monster or skill before and even Crafting is only available as a Vet-Pick... and then you have to spend ages finding the NPC to talk to about using the skill... and then spend ages trying to find the money to join the College... and then.... why is it so hard to bring new players into the game system? Do these LARPs seriosuly think that new players will destroy the game system with a few badly placed weapon calls?
Loathe as I am to disagree, I have to here. LARP is expensive. Many people can't get into LARP because of the costs... (robes, £80, cloak £120, sword £40 etc.... I can make you the robes for£40 and the cloak for £35 and still have a profit, but you don't see companies like that selling - they sell 'fine wool' - it's a game, what's wrong with simple cotton?) but I appreciate the sentiment. I think people feel the hobby is too expensive when they don't know what to do at the event. you pay £90 for Renewal which is not much more that a glorified piss-up and then an 2-day punch-up. Go as a non-com who doesn't know anyone... you'll see what I mean. It's £90 for nothing much.
TBH, I feel that the players in many systems do not receive much for their efforts and that many systems have no clue what their players actually want. 'Rewards' can be given easily if managed correctly - mainly as many 'rewards' can be 'perceived' rewards. Many systems are too complex, many systems are too simple. Character progression in many systems is near zero. Elitism is in the extreme in the LARP industry, and many people only progress in the system by becoming best buddies with the refs or organisers. I feel also that systems put vast effort into things which are, ultimately, nothing of worth to players. As an example CP spent loads of money on a ritual circle that most players were already happy with - the money could have gone elsewhere, say to support the College and get new players into the game system easier. Do you also realise that no plot for a CP event is made until a week before the event? I appreciate the views, but the returning to previous points - the reason smaller groups die off is because they fight against the tide of opinion keeping people in the bigger systems. People return to the bigger systems because they feel the smaller systems will either a) not survive or b) disappoint as much as the larger system. Seriously, I doubt many systems know what their own players actually want - and many seem unwilling to change. You're right, Kevin, LARP is a social hobby, but I feel that people forget that sometimes. I've found that the larger systems hardly ever encourage new players - and some people need that extra push. A new player turns up to your system, give them something fun to play - show them how a character can develop. Newbies need to be brought into the game, not looked down upon because they don't know the rules - something I've experienced. The longer-time players don't do overtly.... they tell you the rules every time a new weapon call or spell is sued, for example. I had to correct a long-term player at one point, who then stood there open mouthed that I knew a rule better than him. I then told him that if I wanted a rule clarified, I would ask, thank you very much!
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Alex Agricola
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Joined: 08 Jan 2010 Location: West Sussex Posts: 151 |
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Posted: 05 Aug 2010 at 16:49 |
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All very spot on views and certainly from a business point of view Ive seen all these things very much happeneing everywhere, no matter which country.
As you say the big systems have closed boards ... which certainly doesnt achieve anything other than closed doors... hell, put in place rules and if someone breaks them, just kick them !!
I can understand a system is personal to the writers, but this is where blind passion overwhelms sense... Im not strictly sure if its simply a case that big systems already have the members they want, but as you say, most simply dont seem to listen...
Many of the big systems were started as split off factions in the UK that started with the people behind the gathering, getting fed up and moving into their own systems... the problem now is stagnation... and the fear that the minute anyone mentions anything being done for profit it will be followed by a public burning !!! and loss of players..
We have offered all the UK systems marketing support for FREE and hell.... none of them have ever taken us up on this, despite us having more larp customers than all three systems players bases x 5 !!!! you simply cant win..... believe it or not when offering Matt Pennington (Maelstrom, Odyssey) a feature story in this site... Matt's words were "you write something and I'll sign it" !!!!!!! my response is wow... to say his attitude was less than interested was an understatement... where as conversations with CP were better, NONE of them have bothered to do anything (despite it all being free marketing)
Bottom line in order for things to change for the better (my personal view.... im not afraid of a public burning) is that clubs of all sizes need to create a business plan, that allows, growth and customer satisfaction.... after all both players and helpers are all customers...
Kit doesnt have to cost a fortune even if you stick to spending money on the kit that needs to be safe or keep you warm or fed... events need to offer enough reasons to keep customers comming back.... AND paying a little more (value for money, rather than spending £60-90 for a piss up you could have achieved for free !!)
Next year if we can get ourselves organised, we will be running an event (of the larger type) BUT we have employed a professional writer.... and will build props, collect set dressing kit and await the perfect site, with the right number of staff to make it work... It will charge a good price and you will get more than your moneys worth .... and yes, it will mean taking some time to re-coup the investment and yes, it will take constant re-investment to keep interest..
Bottom line, give people enough reasons to be involved... take it back to its roots and make it fun and something people want to be involved it...
Finally talk to your customers...................... we always have hence 11 years after people said there was no room for us in the market, we prooved them wrong !! and are about to launch 3 more online stores
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